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[personal profile] franceslievens
It has been said in these quarters that an atheist doesn't need a field guide to tell her how to behave in this one life. Faith in a supranatural being doesn't have to be replaced with faith in something else. Science doesn't need faith. It is.
But like Muslims, who are all terrorists, atheists are thrown onto a heap of people having put their faith in science. Writer Anne Provoost has some thought-provoking words to say about this subject in an interview in the literary section of De Morgen of today. Her search for an atheist gospel started with a silly road-incident involving herself on a bike and the reckless chauffeur of a van. When questioned about his recklessness the driver smiled and answered "God looks out for us. He takes care of you and me." What does an atheist reply to that? What do you say when the director-general of Catholic schools declares she has the conviction God has a plan for her? Does God have a plan for non-believers as well? What do I do if I don't want to part of that plan? And how do you know about that plan?
It is easy to point the finger at believers, and say that they are wrong and mistaken in their beliefs for this or that reason, but what do we have to offer? Anne Provoost calls it a gospel*: a meaningful message to show that the impious aren't necessarily sinful or empty inside. This gospel differs in two ways from the writings of other atheists: It doesn't show itself as the adversary of religion and it gives religious experiences a place within atheism. In her own words (quickly translated from Dutch):
I've tried [to explain my gospel] with an image that everyone can understand: when a computer is unable to do something we get an ERROR-message. It doesn't try to define what's outside its reach, let alone judge it. What lies beyond ERROR is called "something" by some, "God" by others. We atheists on the other hand accept the limit of knowledge and understanding. [...]
[...] Believers have very sexy images of what lies beyond ERROR, we haven't. When we said that beyond the limit of knowledge isn't some sort of extra-material entity, we are called silly materialists. But even the most rabid atheist knows you get goosebumps when looking at something beautiful, a work of art, a landscape. That question I've asked myself: Can we find an image that clarifies our belief that we are unable to understand everything? For me the distinction between atheism and believing is as clear as glass. The atheist says he experiences something that exceeds the limits of knowledge, but doesn't believe it involves anything supranatural. The atheist doesn't believe that what lies beyond ERROR will abolish all laws of physics.**
What she says, isn't new to me. Contrary to the somethingists***, most atheists embrace the finiteness of the world. There are limits to everything and we must live with them – and usually I'm even glad that everything ends.

*I don't think Anne Provoost uses the term in the strict meaning of a text we all should adhere to and "believe in".
**Quick and dirty translation of Filip Rogiers, "We moeten zelf met een blijde boodschap komen" from DM Uitgelezen, Wednesday April 2 '08, p. 3.
***My word for people who believe their has to be "something" beyond what we perceive, solely based on the fact they feel this when they come into contact with beautiful things, but who don't bother to give this something a name.

Date: 2008-04-02 03:00 pm (UTC)
ext_11565: (Default)
From: [identity profile] sister-luck.livejournal.com

Just a quick fly-by heads up before I take the time to digest your post properly:

In the third line of your translation of Anne Provoost's gospel explanation I think you wanted to say accept instead except.

Will come back later for a proper comment!

Date: 2008-04-02 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
Thanks. Will fix it.

Date: 2008-04-02 03:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frenchani.livejournal.com
I like your "somethingists" ! ;- )

I would add that, for me, agnostics are something inbetween for they think there might be something beyond or not, or rather that something is inherently unknowable so they embrace the finiteness of knowledge but they don't disregard or reject the possibility of "something beyond".

As an atheist, the mere notion of "beyond" is actually pointless for me. There's just now and here, which changes as the knowledge evolves and grows. There's either the being or the nothingness.

Now I'm going to run errands in the supermarket!

Date: 2008-04-02 04:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
As an atheist, the mere notion of "beyond" is actually pointless for me.
*nods*

There has been a long time that I have regarded myself as an agnost, but the longer I thought about it, the more I understood it's better to take a strong position in this. I don't have to hang on to beliefs I was raised with. When the kids at school ask me whether I believe in God it's easier to simply say "no". Ooh, how shocking it is for them. ;-)

Date: 2008-04-02 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
I don't know whether she read Chris Hedges, but she did refer to the likes of Christopher Hitchens. Maybe she simply had the same problems with it. (Haven't read the link yet -- will come back to it.)

Date: 2008-04-02 05:42 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] iphi1.livejournal.com
The article is actually mainly about Christopher Hitchens. :)

Date: 2008-04-02 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
Noticed that at first glance.

Will be reading now.

Date: 2008-04-02 07:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] comava.livejournal.com
I like the term somethingists! And the example with the computer.

A chauffeur like that would have given me the creeps.

Date: 2008-04-02 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
Haha, P. and I have been using that word in Dutch for years now to refer to those people that aren't practicing Catholics, but marry in the church and baptise their children, because "There has to be something."

Date: 2008-04-02 08:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] comava.livejournal.com
Oh, how often I hear that! So many of my friends and family feel that way.

I am going to try to incorporate that word into my vocabulary if I can find a suitable German term. Maybe... "Irgendwasisten"? [livejournal.com profile] sister_luck needs to help me with this! ;-)

Date: 2008-04-02 08:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
The Dutch variant is "ietsisten", if that may be of any help.

Date: 2008-04-02 08:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] comava.livejournal.com
...hmm, maybe. So does "iets" mean something?

Perhaps "Etwasisten" might be more accurate in German.

Date: 2008-04-03 06:08 pm (UTC)
ext_11565: (Default)
From: [identity profile] sister-luck.livejournal.com

Hmm - the problem is that in German those people usually say: "Das muss es noch (irgend)was geben", so the -isten suffix is a bit confusing because it reminds me too much of ist, the form of sein.

But I don't think I can come up with a better version so it has to be "Etwasisten".

Date: 2008-04-04 08:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frances-lievens.livejournal.com
The -isten suffix is analogous with atheists, cubists, modernists... What's the general suffix for these in German?

Date: 2008-04-04 04:57 pm (UTC)
ext_11565: (Default)
From: [identity profile] sister-luck.livejournal.com

It's the same: Atheisten, Modernisten, Kubisten whathaveyou, but the combination with etwas jars a little bit, because etwas goes with ist to form sentences like: Etwas ist komisch., but it's probably only me who feels slightly confused by it.

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