The Language Barrier (2)

[franceslievens]

Sitting in the theatre, watching a piece Tim Etchells made with 17 Flemish kids from Ghent, the language barrier becomes clearer than ever. The children (aged 8 to 14) probably don't speak much English. It is safe to assume Tim Etchells can't even order a beer in Dutch. So this is how it works: the director writes his text in English, which then gets translated into Dutch. When you know what they're saying, you can actualy give quite some directions, although you don't understand the lingo. Like that moment when watching Battlestar Galactica with frenchani: I commented in Dutch on it, and she actualy got the jist of what I was saying, because of the intonation. But that doesn't work at all times of course. It's not because they're talking fast and agitated that Italians are constantly arguing amongst themselves.

This working method does have its limitations. Sometimes the Dutch spoken by the children seems to jar. Not because they used big words (that was part of the fun of putting a mirror in front of the adult audience), but simply this wasn't the way things are said in Dutch. The translation was impeccable when swapping typical English games with Flemish ones, and then suddenly an English expression gets translated too literal. Suddenly I didn't get what they were trying to say. Checking the English text that was projected overhead I understood things better, and realised there were better ways of translating.

Strange is that it isn't English that's jarred because a non-native speaker uses that language to suit her needs, but a native speaker that doesn't do her translation job very well. It would be easier to translate to your own language than to a foreign language. Our passive knowledge of a language is always bigger than the active knowledge, especialy when you don't use it every day, don't think in it, when it doesn't shape your subconscious level of thinking. It goes to show that translating is in fact a job not everyone can do. You have to be a good writer in your own language, but you also have to be vigilant for the pace, sound, and structures of the language you're translating. It's balancing between straightforward translating what's said (for instance in legal documents) and trying to evoke the melody of words and phrases of one language in a different one. It's when this balance is off that your native language suddenly jars.

Comments

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

It wasn't only because of the intonation. There was the context too, we were watching the same thing and I could get your thoughts without actually undrstanding your words.

Communication between two people works because it is based on language (both verbal and body language) but also on tacit knowledge. By the way I think there's a text by Levinas about that, a text concernuing two rabbis. I kind of remember working on it in my Philosophy course when I was in Hypokhâgne...

[frances-lievens.livejournal.com]

True, which also works in the case of Tim Etchells, because he knows what the kids are supposed to say, he can correct their body language, if it doesn't appeal to him.

And isn't it fact that we get most of our information from body language rather than from the actual words? You can see this when body language and words contradict each other. We'll take the non-verbal as "real information" then.

But that's actualy beside the point I was trying to make. :-)

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Perhaps we get most of our information from tacit knowledge rather than from actual words and body language!

[frances-lievens.livejournal.com]

I don't think we actualy get it from tacit knowledge, but it's this knowledge that enables us to encode the language! We wouldn't be able to understand much when watching two Chinese people having a conversation, would we? Unless they're hammering each other down with wooden sticks. Then it's safe to assume they have one hell of an argument.

Plus relying too much on knowledge you already have, can make for misunderstandings, because you start placing things in a different context from the one they were actualy uttered in.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

I guess it depends on the place, the situation and whether we know the two Chineses in question.

And of course it can make for misunderstandings. My point was that both understandings and misunderstandings mostly happen because of tacit knowledge !

[frances-lievens.livejournal.com]

There can be other reasons as well. If you don't mind I'm not going to elaborate on the communication diagram. It points out several problems where you have misunderstanding. Saying it all boils down to tacit knowledge is an oversimplification.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

Well, sorry for oversimplifying! Shame on me!

Actually it was mostly an hypothesis in reaction to the importance that you gave to body language, a track for thoughts based on old readings of Levinas and Philosophy course I've forgotten, not a definitive statement, if you recall in my first comment I said "perhaps". But as usual it's difficult to be clear using a foreign language, see I'm getting back to your topic!

But if you don't want to elaborate and discuss it here it's fine my me. :- )

[frances-lievens.livejournal.com]

Yes, trying to explain every nuance in a foreign language and doing it in a comment that's not too long, is indeed hard.

Part of why I don't want to elaborate on the communication diagram, is because I don't know it that well, and I don't really feel like looking the information up. P.'s work is in the field of information and knowledge (epistemology), so I'd probably end up saying things he'll go on refuting...