We all want a bad boy-friend*.
Nov. 6th, 2005 10:33 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
franceslievensNever having watched an episode of Veronica Mars, be it in a legal or an illegal manner, I wasn't really interested in a conversation on this matter over on the BC&S. Until ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
frenchani got into the conversation with a remark about themes – and you should never ignore Chani's knowledge of themes. Let's quote her:
Oh, it's our whole battle of the sexes rolled into one sentence: the girl gets the guy and changes the lion into a domestic kitten. It's what we are supposed to do, isn't it? It's what is good – as opposed to the evilness / bad-boy-image of the male character. That's what makes us watch: the belief that there's an angel underneath and that we can actually get it out of a man.
On the other hand there's also the image of a girl falling for the bad boy and us loving to watch it, because it isn't the proper thing to do. In my opinion Spike was by far the most interesting character on Buffy. He was the one we weren't supposed to love, being the little bad and all, but we did love him. And in the end he got the good girl, taught her to be naughty and ended up saving the world – and totally fits into the above theme. Well yeah, it must be the idea that everyone can be redeemed in the end.
There are actually two things missing from the grand theme – things that exist in everyday life. First where's the bad girl, and can she be redeemed by love? If we go back to Buffy then we can look at bad girl Faith, who gets redeemed in the end, but out of her own choice and not because she wants to for the boy, whereas Spike gets his soul to make an impression on the girl (and kind of regrets it afterwards). So where's the man who wants to turn his lioness into a purring kitten? The evil girl is accompanied by an evil man (see Bonnie and Clyde or Natural Born Killers); the evil man gets hordes of girls behind him that want to work for his redemption.
Second we also love the bad boy who doesn't get redeemed in the end. We like and adore and cherish the bad boy, because of what he is, because there are no strings attached to what he gives. You can take and leave and he won't make you pay for it. It's what Buffy does when she first hooks up with Spike. It's what probably a great deal of affairs are based on. Unfortunately for Buffy the writers decided to let a bunch of feelings come into play as well. It became more than simple taking and leaving. It became a Theme.
Life doesn't do Themes. It just does without higher meanings and grand Themes. We take what we can get, cherish the moment and then go on living again. The others? Let's just say they read too many Bouquet Romances.
*This is the worse pun ever, but you try writing bad-boy-boyfriend or boyfriend with bad-boy-image and you'll know where I'm coming from.
frenchani got into the conversation with a remark about themes – and you should never ignore Chani's knowledge of themes. Let's quote her:Actually the THEME is "the good girl is attracted to the wannabe-bad guy who actually isn't that bad and she manages to turn him into a good guy".
Oh, it's our whole battle of the sexes rolled into one sentence: the girl gets the guy and changes the lion into a domestic kitten. It's what we are supposed to do, isn't it? It's what is good – as opposed to the evilness / bad-boy-image of the male character. That's what makes us watch: the belief that there's an angel underneath and that we can actually get it out of a man.
On the other hand there's also the image of a girl falling for the bad boy and us loving to watch it, because it isn't the proper thing to do. In my opinion Spike was by far the most interesting character on Buffy. He was the one we weren't supposed to love, being the little bad and all, but we did love him. And in the end he got the good girl, taught her to be naughty and ended up saving the world – and totally fits into the above theme. Well yeah, it must be the idea that everyone can be redeemed in the end.
There are actually two things missing from the grand theme – things that exist in everyday life. First where's the bad girl, and can she be redeemed by love? If we go back to Buffy then we can look at bad girl Faith, who gets redeemed in the end, but out of her own choice and not because she wants to for the boy, whereas Spike gets his soul to make an impression on the girl (and kind of regrets it afterwards). So where's the man who wants to turn his lioness into a purring kitten? The evil girl is accompanied by an evil man (see Bonnie and Clyde or Natural Born Killers); the evil man gets hordes of girls behind him that want to work for his redemption.
Second we also love the bad boy who doesn't get redeemed in the end. We like and adore and cherish the bad boy, because of what he is, because there are no strings attached to what he gives. You can take and leave and he won't make you pay for it. It's what Buffy does when she first hooks up with Spike. It's what probably a great deal of affairs are based on. Unfortunately for Buffy the writers decided to let a bunch of feelings come into play as well. It became more than simple taking and leaving. It became a Theme.
Life doesn't do Themes. It just does without higher meanings and grand Themes. We take what we can get, cherish the moment and then go on living again. The others? Let's just say they read too many Bouquet Romances.
*This is the worse pun ever, but you try writing bad-boy-boyfriend or boyfriend with bad-boy-image and you'll know where I'm coming from.
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no subject
Date: 2005-11-07 09:38 am (UTC)So where's the man who wants to turn his lioness into a purring kitten? The evil girl is accompanied by an evil man (see Bonnie and Clyde or Natural Born Killers); the evil man gets hordes of girls behind him that want to work for his redemption.
Well, we have the Cinderella/Galatea theme...with the good man being Prince charming saving the girl or a Pygmalion.
Bad girls are also often loose girl, or in French "femme de mauvaise vie".
So it isn't that they are bad but they are living a bad life, and the good man shows up and save them from that bad life.
Spike was interesting because he was complex, because you could feel that under the bad boy attitude there was something else, something that didn't fit in the definition of vampires we had until him.
Is Rhett Butler a bad boy? He says himself that he is not a gentleman because he doesn't follow the rules of the Southern uptight society, but actually he's very chivalrous. But what makes Gone With The Windinteresting isn't that Rhett would be a bad boy or afalse bad boy but that Scarlett isn't a good girl!
no subject
Date: 2005-11-08 06:24 am (UTC)The thing with Cinderella/Galatea is that they aren't bad, as in evil. They are outcasts and haven't done anything wrong. They just wait for Prince Charming to arrive to get them out of the mess someone else put them in. Nice thing to do...
I don't know anything about Gone With the Wind. I always assumed it was a stupid tearjerker and don't know the characters too well, but I guess you are right: ethically speaking Scarlett is anything but a good girl. I should go and read the book to write an opinion on it! (But actually I don't have any urge to read the damn book. *grins*)